-You ever read "Philosophy’s Violent Sacred (Duane Armitage)"? I found that to be helpful along these lines (not suggesting you need help, btw, just that you'd find resonance with it.)
-"Nietzsche had to find a scapegoat ... so he unconsciously deemed himself the victim ..." Yes, I think so. Never thought of it that way, but it makes sense. (If self-victimizing makes sense.)
This is so so good. You’re right on the money — we’re fundamentally religious and we ought not to laugh at the “Bronze Age peasants” sacrificing their children to Moloch. It is only the fumes of Christianity keeping that sort of behavior at bay.
Nietzsche isn't wrong necessarily, it's just a philosophy too ahead of his time. Now is still too early for his philosophy to come into fruition in this wicked world.
James, I enjoyed reading your post and have now subscribed—I'll be following your work going forward. The issues you raise are close to my heart, and your thoughtful engagement with Nietzsche and Christianity prompted me to reflect deeply on these topics. I was inspired to write a response, which I hope you’ll read when you have the time. Some of my thoughts are critical, but they stem from my own personal struggle with these complex issues, rather than any disagreement with the core values you articulate or the charitable tone with which you present them.
I truly appreciate your nuanced defense of Christian morality and your critique of Nietzsche’s vitalism. However, in my response, I wrestle with some of the tensions that arise from Christianity’s historical record—particularly its role in violence and exclusion—and explore how these aspects coexist with the same values of peace and sacrificial love that we both admire. I aim to engage these difficult questions with the same spirit of goodwill and open dialogue that you exhibit in your writing.
I would love to hear your thoughts if you ever find the chance to read my essay. Thanks again for your insights, and I look forward to seeing more of your work.
This is well written . One of The last paragraphs I could summarize it with a scripture I hold dear Galatians 2:20 : I have been crucified with Christ,it’s no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me ; and the life which I now live I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me . That is epitome of what you were saying
Excellent piece! Really thoughtful and insightful. So much new to me regarding Nietzche and also a fleshing out of the reversal of human sacrifice that Jesus’s story encapsulates.
I think the remedy isn’t exclusively within Christianity but can be found there for sure. I love Joseph Campbell’s ideas in his study of comparative mythology the world over. I think Campbell makes an excellent Ubermench in his spiritual advice and understanding. Something like:
1) View mythology as literature and metaphor, study it to understand oneself and how one relates to the world
2) perhaps pick and choose some spiritual practices and rituals to observe oneself from the litany of global options
3) follow your passions towards vitality but also observe the golden rule as nearly every spiritual tradition prescribes
Thanks, Ed. Yeah I think that approach is certainly better than nothing. And I think Campbell is a great writer and communicator -- one of my all-time favorites.
Have you ever ran across any Girard? He kinda changed my mind on what you said above. Him and C.S. Lewis.
I only know Girard vaguely from his mimetic theory and CS Lewis from the children’s fantasy. Any suggestions? The scapegoat/sacrifice stuff seems fascinating
I just read "I see Satan fall like Lightning" and it's where I was able to pull together a lot of the ideas above (plus the title). Definitely recommend that one.
As a materialist atheist I have no personal stake in either Christianity or vitalism, but I find it morbidly funny that this ridiculous spiritual worldview is spreading among evangelical Protestants. The very people who most defined themselves by the Good News (literally what "evangelical" means--"Of the Good News") and considered themselves the most piously Christian of all Christians, now turn their back on Christ and embrace a pagan cult of God the Father (or sometimes outright polytheism, like with the idol worship of Trump).
Thank you for this. The neo-Nietzscheans of the Right and the Derridian-Foucaultians of the Left have been getting me down recently. But this read was a cool drink of water reminding me to stay the course, keep surrendering, and trust God. Selah.
-Really good.
-You ever read "Philosophy’s Violent Sacred (Duane Armitage)"? I found that to be helpful along these lines (not suggesting you need help, btw, just that you'd find resonance with it.)
-"Nietzsche had to find a scapegoat ... so he unconsciously deemed himself the victim ..." Yes, I think so. Never thought of it that way, but it makes sense. (If self-victimizing makes sense.)
-Thanks.
- thank you!
- I have not. I will put it on my list, right now.
- Agree
- You're welcome!
Armitage did a really good job making two difficult writers accessible (I skipped the part on Heidegger)
This is so so good. You’re right on the money — we’re fundamentally religious and we ought not to laugh at the “Bronze Age peasants” sacrificing their children to Moloch. It is only the fumes of Christianity keeping that sort of behavior at bay.
Completely agree. If we're not careful, we will certainly see those beasts again.
Nietzsche isn't wrong necessarily, it's just a philosophy too ahead of his time. Now is still too early for his philosophy to come into fruition in this wicked world.
James, I enjoyed reading your post and have now subscribed—I'll be following your work going forward. The issues you raise are close to my heart, and your thoughtful engagement with Nietzsche and Christianity prompted me to reflect deeply on these topics. I was inspired to write a response, which I hope you’ll read when you have the time. Some of my thoughts are critical, but they stem from my own personal struggle with these complex issues, rather than any disagreement with the core values you articulate or the charitable tone with which you present them.
I truly appreciate your nuanced defense of Christian morality and your critique of Nietzsche’s vitalism. However, in my response, I wrestle with some of the tensions that arise from Christianity’s historical record—particularly its role in violence and exclusion—and explore how these aspects coexist with the same values of peace and sacrificial love that we both admire. I aim to engage these difficult questions with the same spirit of goodwill and open dialogue that you exhibit in your writing.
I would love to hear your thoughts if you ever find the chance to read my essay. Thanks again for your insights, and I look forward to seeing more of your work.
- Jim
https://open.substack.com/pub/jimfield/p/the-cross-and-the-sword?r=1ekhgj&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
Thank you, Jim. Looking forward to checking it out.
Amazingly insightful.
Thanks, man. Love your stuff, too.
A well written and thought-provoking piece.
Thanks, Jeff!
This is well written . One of The last paragraphs I could summarize it with a scripture I hold dear Galatians 2:20 : I have been crucified with Christ,it’s no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me ; and the life which I now live I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me . That is epitome of what you were saying
Totally. It's really amazing to see it all come together in various ways.
Thank you for this.
Thank YOU
Excellent piece! Really thoughtful and insightful. So much new to me regarding Nietzche and also a fleshing out of the reversal of human sacrifice that Jesus’s story encapsulates.
I think the remedy isn’t exclusively within Christianity but can be found there for sure. I love Joseph Campbell’s ideas in his study of comparative mythology the world over. I think Campbell makes an excellent Ubermench in his spiritual advice and understanding. Something like:
1) View mythology as literature and metaphor, study it to understand oneself and how one relates to the world
2) perhaps pick and choose some spiritual practices and rituals to observe oneself from the litany of global options
3) follow your passions towards vitality but also observe the golden rule as nearly every spiritual tradition prescribes
Thanks, Ed. Yeah I think that approach is certainly better than nothing. And I think Campbell is a great writer and communicator -- one of my all-time favorites.
Have you ever ran across any Girard? He kinda changed my mind on what you said above. Him and C.S. Lewis.
I only know Girard vaguely from his mimetic theory and CS Lewis from the children’s fantasy. Any suggestions? The scapegoat/sacrifice stuff seems fascinating
I just read "I see Satan fall like Lightning" and it's where I was able to pull together a lot of the ideas above (plus the title). Definitely recommend that one.
As a materialist atheist I have no personal stake in either Christianity or vitalism, but I find it morbidly funny that this ridiculous spiritual worldview is spreading among evangelical Protestants. The very people who most defined themselves by the Good News (literally what "evangelical" means--"Of the Good News") and considered themselves the most piously Christian of all Christians, now turn their back on Christ and embrace a pagan cult of God the Father (or sometimes outright polytheism, like with the idol worship of Trump).
Pagan cult of God the Father?? Those sure are some words you said.
If you call yourself a Christian but hate everyone Jesus loved and love everything he hated, can you really be anything else?
Thank you for this. The neo-Nietzscheans of the Right and the Derridian-Foucaultians of the Left have been getting me down recently. But this read was a cool drink of water reminding me to stay the course, keep surrendering, and trust God. Selah.
Interesting read.
I learned a lot reading this. Excellent summaries James!